Falcon - no boot

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Robson
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Falcon - no boot

Postby Robson » Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:02 pm

Hi,
My falcon worked well until today. I was having fun with partitioning a CF card and after a reset something has gone wrong.
The power light is on, the fan is working but I don't get the logo, no display and boot sequence won't start. I tried to put the original memory back and disconnect the hdd, no luck.
No modifications other than 14MB update and new nvram+fan.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.
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Re: Falcon - no boot

Postby Guest » Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:10 pm

your reset button has failed perhaps and is conductive ...

check the reset and halt signals first
you can find the !reset and ! halt on the addons port
they should both read high from just after power on
then when you press and let go reset they should both go low return to high and stay there...
easy too see use a digital meter or better a logic probe {use the large capacitor on any atari for 5v supply too the probe clip on
however if you use a logic probe and see the halt goes low any time even for a flicker after boot then there is a faulty ic

ive had it before the reset button is made from two sliding copper grabs they wear
and with the grease in the switch turns into a copper conductive jam... so holds the machine to ransom always in reset
you can try to spray it

you could end up chassing your tail
so check the halt and reset first with a meter set to dc voltage black probe to the computer chassis negative
and report back

try giving the reset button a work out perhaps some cleaner spray
and see if it burst to life
if it does replace the button

go slowly with the falcon no fast actions ...
if your not sure ask a pal who knows too help you
there is little that can go wrong.,..let see

also what nvram chip did you use to replace the one on the board??? exact number please

my advice is to check halt and reset then stop
and plug in a diag cart and rs232 to a pc to echo whats up with it

save you heeps of time
Last edited by Guest on Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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paul92706
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Re: Falcon - no boot

Postby paul92706 » Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:21 pm

Robson wrote:Hi,
My falcon worked well until today. I was having fun with partitioning a CF card and after a reset something has gone wrong.
The power light is on, the fan is working but I don't get the logo, no display and boot sequence won't start. I tried to put the original memory back and disconnect the hdd, no luck.
No modifications other than 14MB update and new nvram+fan.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.

Hi Robson, does it boot to a white screen or black screen? if white screen, your jumper 20 & 22 on the Expanison Conector is missing. double check :) but as simbo say's, thats a strong possability it could be Reset switch has gubbed!
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Re: Falcon - no boot

Postby Guest » Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:28 pm

exaclty ive see it 'happen' in one press

you press reset it works
then the machine hangs in reset on the next press
because bits of the copper has finaly broken
the hands of the grab,,,
little folded copper slider guy.. breaking into copper jam ...

once it goes the switch goes to like 100R and never moves even if you spray it
only way to tell is to measure halt and reset and test the button

then the next step is the cart and cable wire the patient up


"My falcon worked well until today. I was having fun with partitioning a CF card and after a reset"

was it a software cold reset ctrl alt rhtshft del ...??? or a reset button
you should use the cold reset not the button
when working with disks and drivers exit the hddutil etc and then cold reset not the button
the button is the last resort {boot up the arse...}
resetting hard the chipset is a bad idea as your general reset...
after preloaded games perhaps it is needed
but for any adjustments or o/s work etc
exit the app if pos and cold reset...

when i see ' i recently replaced the nvram' i worry

what ic number and etc... can be an issue ..
with some nvram they have a nvram block reset pin
you can try too pull it to state to reset the nvram and then the machine perhaps will boot
i say this because ive had issue with some nvram getting messed with by some situations of software
not sure why
but its the ones with no nvblock reset pin its there but clipped
bought online on ebay from china they get about these bad ic's
you could be the fourth person with the same issue
Last edited by Guest on Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Guest

Re: Falcon - no boot

Postby Guest » Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:59 pm

the fan is working but I don't get the logo, no display and boot sequence won't start.


so i assume black screen {no display the monitor out of range}

gota be the nvram ...corrupted...? lots of bad ic;s around

or stuck in reset

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Robson
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Re: Falcon - no boot

Postby Robson » Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:10 pm

Hi guys,
Thanks for the replies.

yes as simbo has guessed right it's black screen.

It was the reset button I pressed when this happened.

I did a quick testing on the expansion port pins (i don't know the exact pinout) but lots of them went high +4.9x when the button was pressed and went back to normal low voltages when released.

Well the nvram was replaced professionally, it's in a socket now but ordered another one to see if that is the problem.
this one in place is: "Dallas DS12887A (0316A2 11969) Philippines" type.
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paul92706
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Re: Falcon - no boot

Postby paul92706 » Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:29 am

Be careful with those HOT test, could produce more damage to your mobo. But anyhow it does seem like a NVRAM issue there, and possably RESET switch gubbed.
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Re: Falcon - no boot

Postby Guest » Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:02 pm

I agree

that type of nvram isnt right dallas says it is but im not convinced
look for the correct one 1287A
if i remember thats the one with missing pins
i had 5 of them and they were all flaky
i replaced and then it worked for a while then somehow the nvram block gets corrupted
because what i did was to use a burr and expose the reset pin on it
and then if you pull this high when the chip has power it resets the nvram
this worked and cleared the fault for a while

not sure this type is ok to use...
usually when its something nvram
you can plug in a mono monitor and it will boot

i would go down the diag cart road..

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Robson
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Re: Falcon - no boot

Postby Robson » Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:23 pm

This model has pins missing but still could be faulty.

New one arrives tomorrow or Wednesday so we'll see.

I give it a go with the SM124 tonight.
I'll keep you posted.

Unfortunately I don't have a diag cart.
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Re: Falcon - no boot

Postby paul92706 » Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:29 pm

[quote="Robson"]This model has pins missing but still could be faulty.

New one arrives tomorrow or Wednesday so we'll see.

hi Rob, i think the missing pins is ok, my dallas NVRAM also has missing pins, can't remember which exact ones, but it does have missing pins. I would asume those pins arn't important or used.But hey what the heck i would still replace that NVRAM, so good thing you ordered a new NVRAM. Yes please report back, we gotta get your Falcy back up and going again :D
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Re: Falcon - no boot

Postby Robson » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:43 pm

It seems that this one is flying again. The new NVRAM has done the job.

I just need to solder 2 wires back on the keyboard's connector, they didn't like me disconnecting it. I have to figure out which goes where since they are both black, not colour coded. I have schematics, so hopefully from now on it's all good.

Thanks guys.
:cheers:
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Re: Falcon - no boot

Postby Guest » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:59 pm

well done

i had the feeling it was the nvram as i said i got bad results with the 88 version
i checked again and the ic i used was the ds12887a+
so i got a 1287A and hacked the cell to add a battery
and ignored the internal cell

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Re: Falcon - no boot

Postby Robson » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:20 pm

Yes, that was my first guess too, that's why ordered immediately before even posting but your reset switch idea was good, didn't think about that.
Paul's help is also appreciated - I read his post before posting (re jumper problem).

Funny enough during testing the SM124 suggestion I found out that the monitor has no picture. I heard the keys presses through the speakers when hooked up one of the STs and used ALT+arrow. So just found the next what-to-fix project :).
Kinda giving me the indication to go through the collection and test everything.
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Re: Falcon - no boot

Postby paul92706 » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:43 pm

Congradulations! another bird saved! i like that, it's a beautiful feeling when the ol' bird comes back to life :D that's great news Robson,what i have learned after all the hard work i have done to my falcon, i learned Patience and getting Help from other's here on the Forums was a key factor. I hear you brother, on your next project :lol: now my TT030 seems to have died :( so now i have another whole new headache to debugg this TT030 and find out whats going on with it, so now its my turn to start asking questions/help on here again!! :lol: good luck on your future fix's! :wink:
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Re: Falcon - no boot

Postby Guest » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:57 pm

paul92706 wrote:Congradulations! another bird saved! i like that, it's a beautiful feeling when the ol' bird comes back to life :D that's great news Robson,what i have learned after all the hard work i have done to my falcon, i learned Patience and getting Help from other's here on the Forums was a key factor. I hear you brother, on your next project :lol: now my TT030 seems to have died :( so now i have another whole new headache to debugg this TT030 and find out whats going on with it, so now its my turn to start asking questions/help on here again!! :lol: good luck on your future fix's! :wink:



whats the matter with the TT>? :contract: you have mpu halt and reset
and above this bus grant and granted signals from three chips
prob the dma chip it always goes wrong this plcc chip only used in TT rev d-k and also later rev d ste and TT rev jk
try it first... sure to be the problem... ic :coffe: :coffe:

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Re: Falcon - no boot

Postby paul92706 » Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:48 pm

simbo2 wrote:
paul92706 wrote:Congradulations! another bird saved! i like that, it's a beautiful feeling when the ol' bird comes back to life :D that's great news Robson,what i have learned after all the hard work i have done to my falcon, i learned Patience and getting Help from other's here on the Forums was a key factor. I hear you brother, on your next project :lol: now my TT030 seems to have died :( so now i have another whole new headache to debugg this TT030 and find out whats going on with it, so now its my turn to start asking questions/help on here again!! :lol: good luck on your future fix's! :wink:



whats the matter with the TT>? :contract: you have mpu halt and reset
and above this bus grant and granted signals from three chips
prob the dma chip it always goes wrong this plcc chip only used in TT rev d-k and also later rev d ste and TT rev jk
try it first... sure to be the problem... ic :coffe: :coffe:

Hi simbo, ya another issue with the ol' TT. It seems to be stuck in a halt state, no strobing, or anything like that. I will post picture of TT on the new thread i open. Just my luck a DMA maybe cause to this fault? not my lucky day!
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Robson
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Re: Falcon - no boot

Postby Robson » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:10 pm

Hello Simbo,
When you say "plug in a diag cart and rs232 to a pc to echo whats up with it" what cart you exactly mean? Can you drop me a link please.
Does it work with RS232 to USB on a PC?
Thanks.
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Re: Falcon - no boot

Postby Guest » Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:16 pm

Robson wrote:Hello Simbo,
When you say "plug in a diag cart and rs232 to a pc to echo whats up with it" what cart you exactly mean? Can you drop me a link please.
Does it work with RS232 to USB on a PC?
Thanks.


whats wrong now thought it was fixed??? :(

yes it will work with an rs232 to pc via usb converter
just use hyperterm set it up as per the falcon service guides sections on using a diag cart and what too test and when to find the problem
http://dev-docs.atariforge.org/files/At ... _Guide.pdf


if you like i can lend you my falcon cart
pm me an address i can send it too
other than that perhaps best in usa has some left
i cant see it now on 16/32 systems site where i got this falcon one
i also have a spare cart board i can flash a set of roms for this
and then you can keep it

every atari type has its own test cart model
to do hardware and post preduction tests and burn in
so... its handy if you get no video it will echo to the pc whats normally displayed on the screen if it works


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